 Received: from shamash.org by spinach.mscc.huji.ac.il (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA40576; Mon, 22 Jul 1996 19:06:09 +0300 Received: from host (localhost.nysernet.org [127.0.0.1]) by shamash.org (8.7.1/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA05399; Mon, 22 Jul 1996 12:08:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ian.dorsai.org (root@ian.dorsai.org [206.127.32.35]) by shamash.org (8.7.1/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA05161 for <reb-shlomo@shamash.org>; Mon, 22 Jul 1996 11:58:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.127.46.30] (dovid.ppp2.dorsai.org [206.127.46.30]) by ian.dorsai.org (8.7.1/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA15156; Mon, 22 Jul 1996 12:01:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <v01540b00ae193a20869b@[206.127.46.30]> Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 12:02:29 -0400 Sender: owner-reb-shlomo@shamash.org From: dovid@dorsai.org (Dovid Staloff) To: reb-shlomo@shamash.org Cc: rabjeff@echonyc.com I'd like to thank Arthur Waskow for sharing his thoughts and experiences with Reb Shlomo from the 60s and early 70s...

I have a comment to make about Arthur's concern with r shlomo's sense of boundaries.
I can certainly understand the frustrations of those who may have had to deal with shlomo on the level of "boundary", particularly one unfamiliar with with r shlomo's way of challenging the apparent finiteness of consensual reality.
at the same time i also recall how often shlomo taught about the limit of "hesed" without "gvurah"... Once after Reb Shlomo encountered a later day hippie community (the Spinners), I recalled him remarking, "If only they had the vessels for all that light!" (Not long thereafter, this particular community disbanded...) 
with regard to the ordination of our holy sisters and in general:
r. shlomo certainly was most sensitive to tradition/halakha. The Big Problem we have attempting to "understand" r shlomo is in attempting distinguish or label this sensitivity.
labels r shlomo himself apparently had little time for. he talked about the prophetic holiness (ruah hakodesh) associated with the use of names. but i never heard him talk on the holiness of names such as "Orthodox" and "JR", or on how labels could be used to create division among the jewish people.

i don't recall any teachings whether or not our holy daughters were meant to sit in judgement on our Beis Din (holy court). i never recall any remarks whether or not our holy mothers were meant to give over whever a particular  holy chicken could be eaten by a jew or not. but i do recall hearing that we needed holy teachers and mothers who could give over to us how to love children (at least as much as chicken)...

all of reb shlomo's smichas reflected on what r shlomo saw as the educational priorities of an entire nation. at the same time, each smicha reflected on the talent of the particular individual it was written for.
each document i have seen is an individually crafted masterpiece of creativity.

incidently, not long after the ptira, a group met, called itself "the rabbinic committee of the foundation", and set itself a goal of identifying who are the people to whom shlomo gave smicha, and of of collecting and eventually categorizing each smicha.
the goal being the development of a kind of mobile educational system...


All this being said, a comment needs to be made regarding list administration.

Threads addressing the issue of reb shlomo's legacy can and, in fact, sometimes do sprout forth in usenet, on other lists, on aol jewish community forum, compuserve, etc... Each of which is of interest to our list, however, there is no way for me to keep track of this all by myself.

Within our list's subscriber community, there are indoubtably those of you who subscribe to other lists. I think it would be a great service to the whole group if any subscriber who encounters a thread of interest to our list would crosspost it.

Thanks.

Dovid Staloff 

Here is the posting that Art Waskow replied to:

:Date:    Wed, 17 Jul 1996 17:34:27 -0400 :From:    Jeffrey Marker <rabjeff@ECHONYC.COM> :Subject: Re: There are many things new under the sun...
:
:On Wed, 17 Jul 1996, S--  G----  wrote:
:
:>     [He began by quoting Arthur Waskow, as follows:] :>     In my view, there is a great ground-swell of people in motion, a "movement" :>     in that sense, of Jewish renewal:... new music (Carlebach, Shneyer, Gold, :>     Friedman, Hanna Tiferet, Husbands-Hankin, Api-Chorus, Miraj, Elizabeth :>     Swados' serious biblical musicals like Job and Jonah, many others)...
:
:[And then SG proceeded to write:] :
:> :> Despite his non-conformism and hipness, Shlomo Carlabach ztz"l was :> an Orthodox rabbi.  I am amused to see him, as it were, drafted :> into the Jewish renewal movement alongside Debbie Friedman and the :> Reconstructionist Rabbinical College's Api-Chorus.
:[Rabbi Jeff Marker then commented, as follows:] :
:One of the great charms of Reb Shlomo, ztz'l, was his ability to move in :many worlds.  He surely remained an Orthodox rabbi, but moved freely in :many parts of the Jewish Renewal movement, seeing JR as an ally.  First :and foremost, he started out as a Chabad shaliach with Reb Zalman, and in :his last year began appearing with Reb Z again.  He often appeared in :non-Orthodox venues, even on Shabbos, and did not demand a mechitza.  He :was a close teacher and mentor for many JR leaders.  He was a model for a :principled openness that is a model for all of us.  I personally saw that :he tried to break down or lower the mechitza in deed if not in word.  For :instance when I spent Shabbos at his moshav, Mavo Modi'in, many years :ago, whenever he wanted to teach he stopped the service and had us all go :out of the synagogue where we sat and stood around, sexually mixed.
:
:I think the openness of Reb Shlomo was embodied in his funeral, where :black hats, modern Orthos., JR types, and street people cried together.
:He loved us all as we were, not only as potential frummies.  I know one :leading JR couple who flew in from Oregon for the funeral, and Reb Zalman :spoke.
:
:Jeff Marker 

